Author Topic: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.  (Read 6256 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mike Hill

  • Fishless
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
  • Karma: +7/-5
  • Mike - the OTHER Mike!
Re: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2008, 08:09:49 AM »
ENFORCEMENT, or in the case of the Caney, THE LACK OF >:( Folks there isn't enough of it, not only on the regs but the boat traffic as well.
They'll bust your butt on the lakeside for doing the things these guys on the river are doing in boats, REALLY!
Maybe we should be getting the #s off the boats & reporting them, HELLO, did you hear that, ENOUGH complaints against a certain watercraft & they'll take action, ARE YOU WILLING to go to court over it? If not, no sense in complaining about it.
I do some classes & event's with TWRA throughout the year, YEP, i'm bustin their chops every chance i get, one day, i'll hit the right nerve ;)
ENFORCEMENT, i for one welcome more of it, if i had to pay more for a license for it, so be it.

Grumpy
Well said Grump - well said!

MikeA

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16453
  • Karma: +65535/-4
Re: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2008, 08:32:38 AM »
ENFORCEMENT, or in the case of the Caney, THE LACK OF >:( Folks there isn't enough of it, not only on the regs but the boat traffic as well.
They'll bust your butt on the lakeside for doing the things these guys on the river are doing in boats, REALLY!
Maybe we should be getting the #s off the boats & reporting them, HELLO, did you hear that, ENOUGH complaints against a certain watercraft & they'll take action, ARE YOU WILLING to go to court over it? If not, no sense in complaining about it.
I do some classes & event's with TWRA throughout the year, YEP, i'm bustin their chops every chance i get, one day, i'll hit the right nerve ;)
ENFORCEMENT, i for one welcome more of it, if i had to pay more for a license for it, so be it.

Grumpy


Speaking of enforcement and a higher license price to cover it...

I did a little research just to see how our fishing license rates aligned with our surrounding states. Here is what I found. We already pay more for more enforcement.

GA $9.00
KY $20.00
AL $12.00
NC $15.00
SC $10.00
AR $10.50
FL $17.00

TN $28.00 :o
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

bd

  • *****
  • Posts: 2003
  • Karma: +6/-8
Re: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2008, 10:51:49 AM »
Mike, you're not comparing apples to apples.  Keep in mind that Tennessee's Type 01 Resident License is a combo hunting and fishing license.  Many of the other states split the two.

For example:

Georgia's license when you combine hunt/fish is $17.00 (still cheaper, but a lot closer to ours than the $9.00 price quoted).  North Carolina's combo license is $20.00, but doesn't cover fishing in the salt water, which is a fair chunk of what they've got available.  Florida's combo is $23.50 and also does not cover the salt.

Arkansas has a fisheries conservation license and a wildlife conservation license, each costing $10.50 - so the total cost equivalent to what you get in TN is $21.00.

Kentucky's resident combo hunt/fish license is $30.00 - more than Tennessee's.

That's all I have time to look up at the moment.

You also have to take into account that TWRA is funded entirely through license sales, while some of the other states get revenue from general taxpayer funds. 

In addition, a big chunk of our license money goes to extensive hatchery operations for all the trout, stripers, hybrids, sauger, blacknose crappie, and other put/take fisheries that we love so much.  Some of our surrounding states, especially to the south, don't do nearly as much stocking as we do, so they spend less on hatcheries.

bd

MikeA

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 16453
  • Karma: +65535/-4
Re: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2008, 11:29:15 AM »
TWRA also receives money from a federal excise tax on all sporting goods sold in TN. 

Look I'm not knocking TWRA or the job they do or the license fees. They've done an outstanding job here lately and the almost $50 I spend will be recouped. But the idea that we need to pay more to get what we are already paying for just rubs me the wrong way.

I’ve said this many times before. There is a growing traffic problem on our lakes and rivers. You got to see first hand how bad it is this weekend on Priest. What you saw last Sun was nothing (he was almost thrown from the boat by wake from a reckless boater). Wait till all the yahoos with jet skies and ski boats and wakeboards and inner tubes and giant coolers of beer show up. How much do they contribute to TWRA, $0.00. Not only are these folks getting to use and abuse the lakes and rivers for free but they probably contribute to decreased license sales.

Need to find a way to make everyone pay a fair amount to keep the water safe for everyone or just declare Martial law on the water.  ;D
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

toddro

  • Lodgers
  • *
  • Posts: 1643
  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2008, 11:43:26 AM »
As best I can tell, the Caney is under Region 2 of the TWRA.  Here is the email address under the "Law Enforcement" heading from their Contact Page on their website.  I have already emailed to complain about things I have seen from my last several trips out there, and would encourage others to do the same.  The squeaky wheel will get the grease...  Maybe if we can get some responses from them, a seperate thread with contact info can be started so we can bombard them with calls and emails until we see some increased enforcement out there...

cathi.lasater@state.tn.us

Contact information page:
http://state.tn.us/twra/contact.html
"A passion for steelhead is a hard ride. It is all consuming. God help the woman, man, or child who hopes to compete for some small claim to the passion in the angler so stricken." Bill McMillan, Foreword- A Passion for Steelhead

Mike Hill

  • Fishless
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
  • Karma: +7/-5
  • Mike - the OTHER Mike!
Re: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2008, 11:49:46 AM »
Not putting words in Mike's mouth, but.....  With the trout stamp the danged thing is $43.00 or thereabouts.  I think his point is that with the higher price we would expect higher level of service - enforcement.  We as trout fishermen, pay a little extra to pay for the program and to have the privilege of fishing a wider distribution of the cold water species.  That is our choice.  Without it many of use would have to travel 4 hours or more in lieu of 1 hour or less to fish for trout in Tennessee.  However, with the higher fee and the paying of the privilege, we also expect better service (see the recent posts about the big box stores about this line of thinking of value for the dollar).    Our perception  is that we are paying Hardy/Orvis prices but getting WallyWorld service.  However, what is the value of the chance of a grand slam in the Caney in April after the Brook trout stocking?  But I digress!!  I haven't lived in another state in almost 30 years so I don't have too much to compare to, but this state and this city (Nashville) seems to have a serious lack of enforcement of the laws that the Legislature loves to pass.  Just travel our highways and biways and you can see one aspect of the lack of personal responsibility and selfishness of our fellow citizens and the visitors to our grand state and fair city!  That same attitude is now extending into the waterways and reservoirs of this state.  And as usual the government officials will be off planning their next party, apologizing to the Indians and "former"slaves, charging developers for trees they cut down to build a building while allowing trees to be cut down rampantly by their work forces or NES's, or building sidewalks that start nowhere - end nowhere - that nobody uses ......  (shall I go on?) instead of enforcing the laws that they are charged to uphold and enforce and for which they are paid to enforce by mine and yours tax dollars.  Somebody will probably have to get hurt or killed before they get off their collectives backsides and do something about it - if even then.  In addition, this state has to decide a simple question.    Is the trout program a thinly veiled welfare program for a few, paid for by my license dollars, or is it something that is there to enrich the quality of life in this state and benefits the many?  Simple question that all those bureaucrats can't seem to get their arms around and decide.  With all that being said, I feel that the TWRA does a pretty good job of managing most of our wildlife resources - they just don't enforce the regs to the level of irresponsibility that our fellow citizens present.  Now do I expect people who are basically biologists, wildlife mangers, and the ilk to be able to be tough but fair Law Enforcement Officers also?   More enforcers are needed - plain and simple!  How they do it can be varied - just hire more, swear in deputies as needed, have a system of riverkeepers who can record violations where the perpetrator gets a visit and citation later while in the comfort of his easy chair, bring in Guido, etc.....  There are a number of ways that can improve, if only they want to!  or they are forced to!

Whew - Rant over!

Actually not yet!  Perhaps a good place to start is the system of Commissioners.  Now, over the years I'm sure that there have been a number of Commissioners that I am sure were there because they were knowledgeable, loved the outdoors, wanted to do the best for the state, were conversation minded, etc....  But sitting right next to them are ones that don't hold to those same "values" if I may use that term.  The Commissioners are simply a body of people selected by the Governor, quite often as a reward for their work in helping get the Gov. elected.  Almost all the Commissions are the same.  I had a good friend that used to sit on the Commission of higher education.  Knowing him, he put his best effort into managing the colleges and universities in TN and I love the guy, but what experience or expertise did he bring to the table - he was a caulking subcontractor!  However, he did hold some fund-raisers for the then Governor.  I worked for a guy who became a TWRA Commissioner.  Did this guy know anything about wildlife? - not much more than knowing how to absolutely slaughter waterfowl and dove.  For proof, If not purged from the records, he was issued citations, I believe 3 times for game law violations.  I saw the freezers (yes multiple freezers), full of nothing but waterfowl and dove.  What did he bring to the table?  He was one of the biggest fund-raisers for his party and he wanted to make sure he could continue to slaughter all the waterfowl he could while in a state of inebriation.  The system is a breeding ground of favoritism of the privileged and sometimes is there for the protection of the elected.  i.e. - if a large group of local and harvesting, fishermen, don't want restricting of limits and the like, a loophole or a private act is passed and the Commissioners go off whimpering.  It is easier and safer for the reelection of their Leader or their party not to have controversy.  The result is that what is the wish of a few overrules the "good of the many"?  and that is not how this country is supposed to be run!

Leo deMonbreun

  • *****
  • Posts: 1068
  • Karma: +11/-5
Re: Here is my opinion Tubbaka.
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2008, 12:01:32 PM »
As best I can tell, the Caney is under Region 2 of the TWRA.  Here is the email address under the "Law Enforcement" heading from their Contact Page on their website.  I have already emailed to complain about things I have seen from my last several trips out there, and would encourage others to do the same.  The squeaky wheel will get the grease...  Maybe if we can get some responses from them, a seperate thread with contact info can be started so we can bombard them with calls and emails until we see some increased enforcement out there...

cathi.lasater@state.tn.us

Contact information page:
http://state.tn.us/twra/contact.html

I did the same thing Toddro, and got a very quick reply this morning from:

. Glenn Moates, Investigator
TN Wildlife Resources Agency
Boating Division
P.O. Box 40747
Nashville TN 37204
Phone - (615) 781-5271
Fax -      (615) 781-6649
Glenn.Moates@state.tn.us

and he sent a PDF file of the regulations and the contact information for reporting violations.  Think that would cover it for boating violations, but as far as the river Etiquette of other fishermen, it does nothing.  That is pure old respect and many of these idiots have none of that. 

"For the supreme test of a fisherman is not how many fish he has caught, not even how he has caught them, but what he has caught when he has caught no fish." - John H. Bradley