Guide License update

[Striperfishin]

All guides should be licensed. They take people out on water in varying, sometimes dangerous conditions while getting paid for it. I have to have a contractors license to put up a single security camera, so why shouldn't fishing guides be licensed as well. I am usually not in favor of any additional fees or paperwork for small businesses, but in this case it makes sense if applied fairly. The safety issue is the biggest thing I see when dealing with boats, tailwaters etc.

Targeting specific guides is BS. The fees and requirements should be equal across the board.  Proper safety training and requirements make sense and $200 sounds like a reasonable fee. Charging non residents 5 times as much is not reasonable and  is just more protectionist, redneck BS. Charging a boat fee or something for non-resident registered boats would be reasonable though.

Proper licensing (With enforcement of course) would get rid of a lot of the shady guides. It would make it easier for the guides following the rules and going out of their way to provide a safe and enjoyable experience to make a living or supplement their living as there are very few full time guides out there.

Brian

[Leo deMonbreun]

Good point, list of Commissioners here:

Jim Bledsoe - 2011-2017*   (District 3) - District counties: Clay, DeKalb, Fentress, Grundy, Jackson, Macon, Overton, Pickett, Putnam. Smith, Trousdale, Van Buren, Warren and White.
1760 Poplar Cove Road
Jamestown, TN 38556
(931) 265-7201
E-mail: Jim.Bledsoe@tn.gov

William Brown 2009-2015 (TWRC Chairperson) (District 4) - District counties: Bledsoe, Bradley, Hamilton, Marion, McMinn, Meigs, Monroe, Polk, Rhea, and Sequatchie.
1071 Candlewick Ct.
Signal Mountain, TN 37377-3088
Business: (423) 785-8253
Fax: (423) 785-8480

Harold Cannon - 2011-2017*  (District 2) - District counties: Anderson, Blount, Campbell, Cumberland, Knox, Loudon, Morgan, Roane, Scott, Sevier, Union.
8550 Kingston Pike
Knoxville, TN 37919
Business: (865) 670-8555
Fax: (865) 670-8866
E-mail: Harold.Cannon@tn.gov

Jeffrey H. Griggs - 2009-2015  (District 7) - District counties: Benton, Carroll, Decatur, Hardin, Henderson, Henry and Perry.
P.O. Box 541
Lexington, TN 38351-0541
Business: (731) 968-6191
Fax: (731) 968-6119
E-mail: jeff.griggs@tn.gov

Governor Bill Haslam (Ex-Officio Member)
State Capitol
Nashville, TN 37243
Business: (615) 741-2001

Robert Martineau (Commissioner - TDEC)
(Statewide)
1st Floor, L & C Tower Annex
401 Church Street
Nashville, TN 37243-0435
Business: (615) 532-0106
Fax: (615) 532-0120

Dr. Jeff McMillin - 2009-2015* (TWRC Secretary)
(Statewide)
1705 Edgemont Avenue
Bristol, TN 37620-4307
(423) 968-1933
Fax: (423) 968-5015
E-mail: jeff.mcmillin@tn.gov

Julius Johnson (Commissioner - TN Dept. of Agriculture)
(Statewide)
Ellington Agricultural Center
P.O. Box 40627
Nashville, TN 37204
Business: (615) 837-5202
Fax: (615) 837-5333


Mitchell S. Parks - 2007-2013* (TWRC Vice-Chairperson)  (District 5) - District counties: Bedford, Cannon, Coffee, Davidson, Franklin, Lincoln, Marshall, Moore, Robertson, Rutherford, Sumner, and Wilson.
4101 W. Hamilton Road
Nashville, TN 37218
Home: (615) 876-3046

Julie Schuster - 2009-2015  (District 6) - District counties: Cheatham, Dickson, Giles, Hickman, Houston, Humphreys, Lawrence, Lewis, Maury, Montgomery, Stewart, Wayne, and Williamson.
4484 Pine Drive
Pegram, TN 37143
Fax: (615) 477-6430
E-mail: julie.schuster@tn.gov
 
Todd A. Shelton - 2007-2013*   (District 1) - District counties: Carter, Claiborne, Cocke, Greene, Grainger, Hamblen, Hancock, Hawkins, Jefferson, Johnson, Sullivan, Unicoi, and Washington.
100 S. Main Street
Greeneville, TN 37743
Business: (423) 639-5183

Trey Teague - 2011-2017*   (District - Chester, Crockett, Dyer, Gibson, Lake, Madison, Obion, and Weakley.
Suite 177
25-G Stonebrook
Jackson, TN 38305
Business: (731) 693-2900
E-mail: Trey.Teague@tn.gov


Danya L. Welch- 2007-2013*  (District 9) - District counties: Fayette, Hardeman, Haywood, Lauderdale, McNairy, Shelby, and Tipton.
7751 Wolf River Blvd.
Germantown, TN 38138
Business: (901) 759-5100
Fax: (901) 759-5111

Eric Wright - 2009-2013* (Statewide)
1587 Highway 91
Elizabethton, TN 37643-5650
Business: (423) 474-3357
Fax: (423) 543-7738
E-mail: eric.wright@mapeswire.com

[Aquaholic]

All guides should be licensed. They take people out on water in varying, sometimes dangerous conditions while getting paid for it. I have to have a contractors license to put up a single security camera, so why shouldn't fishing guides be licensed as well. I am usually not in favor of any additional fees or paperwork for small businesses, but in this case it makes sense if applied fairly. The safety issue is the biggest thing I see when dealing with boats, tailwaters etc.

Targeting specific guides is BS. The fees and requirements should be equal across the board.  Proper safety training and requirements make sense and $200 sounds like a reasonable fee. Charging non residents 5 times as much is not reasonable and  is just more protectionist, redneck BS. Charging a boat fee or something for non-resident registered boats would be reasonable though.

Proper licensing (With enforcement of course) would get rid of a lot of the shady guides. It would make it easier for the guides following the rules and going out of their way to provide a safe and enjoyable experience to make a living or supplement their living as there are very few full time guides out there.

Brian

+1

This shouldn't just apply to "guides".  If you have operate commercially on the river, you should have a permit IMO.  If have a yak comp wanted to put 2000 yaks on the river tomorrow at 3pm, whose to stop them?  Where is the limit?  

Launch permits.

comments sent.....

[MN Fishing Bum]

I have sent some comments in regards to canoe/ kayak operators. 
This list of specific individuals is awesome.   

[grumpy]

Next TWRC meeting dates

October 13-14, 2011
TWRA Region 2 Ray Bell Building
Ellington Agricultural Center
Nashville, TN 37211
615-781-6500
Thursday - 1:00 p.m.
Friday - 9:00 a.m.

[bd]

Apologies for linking another forum, but this discussion is one that everyone with an interest in this topic ought to read:

http://www.tndeer.com/tndeertalk/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2529025&Board=31&page=1&fpart=all&gonew=1#UNREAD

The reason the guide license is being made tailwater specific is because TWRA perceives that only trout guides want it.  The striper, bass, and crappie guides certainly don't.  Trout guides showed up at Commission meetings and demanded it, so TWRA is proposing that they get what they're asking for.

I'm speculating, but I would expect the reason trout guides asked for a guide license where others didn't is directly related to trout guides being more likely to guide out of a flyshop.  The shops can afford to absorb the license cost, whereas most of the small guys can't.  (There are a few exceptions I can think of - guys who have money from other sources and aren't depending on trout guiding for income.  But they are few).  This will be even more true for the shops when the competition from the small guys is knocked out.

The Commission has already seen a number of trout guides show up at meetings and ask for a license.  Therefore, I'd say this proposal is VERY likely to pass unless a lot more people show up now and say they don't want it.  It's going to be up to the small independent trout guides to show up and say the license proposal isn't fair.

Of course, the fly shops can also afford for someone to take an afternoon off to go to a Commission meeting.  Except for a few independently wealthy trout guides, most of the little guys have other jobs to worry about and can't spare the time.  So I give the guide license proposal a good chance of passing.

In my opinion, it would have been more fair to keep the license cost low, say $50.  That way it's not prohibitive to the little guys.  BUT apply it to ALL guides, and require things like liability insurance, boater safety class, and CPR cert. to get the license.  That ensures quality a lot more than a person's ability to pay a $1,000.00 license fee. 

But again, that's not what the trout guides asked for.

bd

[MikeA]

BD Can you make the meeting? I'll be on the water guiding... Been busy as hell lately.

BTW this was interesting from that thread.

"And, apparently, the Caney has become nationally recognized as one of the premier trophy trout rivers in the country. Guides are booking clients from all over the country to fish the Caney, and some guides want to protect the quality of the fishery by restricting the numbers of guides and reducing the fishing pressure. So, from what they tell me, the sentiment does not seem that we need more non-resident trout fishermen, but that we have more than plenty."

There it is right there folks. This is the meat and potatoes of this whole push.... Seems some guides want to "protect" the fishery. Ha ha That's funny stuff. Where were the concerned folks when the COE was taking a giant shit in the river???

[bee]

Would love to know who they "trout guides" were that asked for this...the person I perceive to be the busiest full time trout guide in Tennessee (full time for about 20 years) indicated he had called several fellow guides and could find no one in the group who was "interviewed"?   The out of state guides , principally from NC, who work the Watauga and South Holston areas have built their entire drift boat trout world around those two rivers.  They will pay the fees and be there everyday , just like now-otherwise they are out of business. So where does that leave TWRA...are they going to have to hire regulators to patrol rivers to monitor guides for licenses?  Will the revenue even provide enough income for that employee?     

Today, There are a bunch of Ky guides who come to the Knoxville area tailwaters , especially with the Cumberland so screwed up.  They will pay the fees and keep coming.  At the end of the day the guide fee focus here ,as a first step to protect the future of trout fishing,  is misplaced.  Economics would tell you the principal consumer of the resource(trout) should be the focus of the fee  increases.  That would be the fellow who takes home limits  of dead fish from the tailwaters.  As it stands now , under current structure, the full stringer group has the best economic deal going.  The catch and release guys subsidize the trout stringers.  95% of the guided trout anglers release all their fish I think.   So are we thinking about taxing and regulating  to protect fish or to protect river space? If is is to protect the fish, the focus on the fish, and The answer is either to limit the kill with more special regs or tax heavily those who kill the fish.

If the issue is not about money but about use or crowding of river space, then go after all of those who take the or utilize the river space, and don't just stop with trout guides.  require all floating anglers to have a permit. And more importantly tax all trout river watercraft --not just canoe and kayak rental places but the "not for profit " canoeists and kayakers generally.     my 2 cents
 

[MikeA]

They don't exist would be my guess. This whole thing seems made up Bee.

Don't delay sending in your comments about this guys. This is nothing short of a few folks trying to push others out of the buisness.

Mail to:
TWRA.Comment@tn.gov
add “Fishing Guide License Comments”  to the subject.

[bd]

I don't think anyone was "interviewed," bee.  It's not made up though.  TWRA has been soliciting public comment on this issue for a while now.  They're just going off the comments that have been submitted so far.

bd

[jarrod white]

I also think this is being generated and pushed by a few folks who wish to gain a little control over the guiding situation, and they know the right people to get it done. I really think it's too bad that the TWRA is not putting more thought into this and actually talking to the guides that are actually on the water providing a good service instead of talking to the guys who think it is a glorious job !! I think the things they are calling requirements are reasonable ( and should have) but if the yearly fee is more than a guide trip it is unreasonable and should be reconsidered. I mean come on, how much is a business license to operate a fly shop, or a boat dealership?   my .02

[TheYiman]

I plan on attending one of the meetings tomorrow or Friday.  Do y'all know if they allow any more public input during these meetings?  I already sent my email a few weeks ago.  I just wanted to speak in person too.  Also, what is the difference in the meetings one reads as committee meeting and the other a council meeting?

[icthus]

I have learned in my short life as a human that who has the most money wins.  I think that it is bull$^%# that if you have money you have more pull.  Do I have more money, all I can say is look up and see if the dam is being fixed.  You are welcome for your houses not being flooded.

Pal is loaded;and I mean loaded,
Pal

:

[grumpy]

SHELVED for the time being

Grumpy

[TheYiman]

I went to the meeting.  As Grumpy said, it was tabled, almost immediately.  The board wants more investigation to be done.  The Paddlefish vs. Sport fish went one for awhile,  eventually, I had to leave.  I believe in both cases the TWRA will continue to accept public comments via email, mail, or phone calls.