Larry Dahlberg on Meltn hill..you gotta see the TV piece

[MikeA]

good discussion fellas, I'm going to leave you guys with it.  I'm not worried about stepping on anybodies toes or locals with pitchforks, all I am worried about is having 50 inch muskies to fish for.  I've caught 6 of them this year all outside the steamplant and I feel it could have been much better if people weren't allowed to go into that plant and pretty much catch them anyway they can especially using live bait.  Once you guys hook onto a 50 inch class fish, you'll understand how valuable these fish are.  I hope TWRA can look past a few angry people to let a true trophy fishery fluorish.  Seems like I'll have to take my arguments elsewhere.  

JFWIW I think you'll find that you and I agree on alot more then we disagree on...

[Jon]

I have a couple of questions, how many people came to the Musky meeting that was held in Crossville or where ever it was held? How many Musky fisherman have written letters to the TWRA about the issue?  Was TWRA invited to the meeting or was it their meeting?  For you guys that are passionate about this fishery, have you asked to be put on the agenda at a Commission Meeting to discuss this fishery? Have you ever taken one of the TWRA biologist fishing with you to discuss your issues and show them what your concerns are?  I do not fish for Musky but was very involved with the regualtions for the Caney Fork involving Trout and I can tell you TWRA is great to work with but you must be organized in your efforts.

I again do not fish for these beast but support any regulations that make the fisheries in our great state better.

As for enforcement you need to call and call and call and then get your fishing buddies to call and call and call. The agents have so much ground to cover that once again it becomes a supply and demand issue. The guys that cover the lower portion of the Caney Fork River also cover Old Hickory lake. The guys that cover the rest of the Caney also cover Center Hill. We sometimes forget that these guys are a limited resource and can't be in two places at once.

Jon

[bd]

 I'm not worried about stepping on anybodies toes or locals with pitchforks, all I am worried about is having 50 inch muskies to fish for.  

Unfortunately, you do have to worry about what the locals think.

Several years ago, some of the trout guys on the Caney Fork got together and got TWRA to pass a "trophy section" on the river.  Between Happy Hollow and Betty's Island, there was a special regulation of no bait fishing and special size restrictions.  It was a fantastic regulation, but the local bait fishermen were furious.

The locals went to their elected Representative, and he got the Tennessee General Assembly to pass a "Private Act" repealing TWRA's regulation and proclaiming, essentially, that no meaningful trophy section could ever be established on the Caney ever again.  That law is still on the books.

That's why the new trophy brown trout regulations had to apply to the whole river.  For all practical purposes, the Private Act made a worthwhile trophy section on a specific section of river impossible to implement.  It also made things more difficult when we came back to get the new trophy regs established, because TWRA and the Commission were still gunshy after the beating they got from the Legislature over the trophy section.

If you make the wrong locals angry, they can get their elected State Rep to override whatever TWRA does and take away TWRA's power to regulate, and the long-term consequence is that you'll have an even harder time protecting your fishery.  As I said before, TWRA and the Commission already have enemies in the General Assembly in that part of the State, and they're not going to stick their necks out to make that worse.

bd

[MikeA]

This board has been my contribution for the last several years and it's definitely been getting the word out about most all the dealings with the commission and TWRA. The money time and effort it takes to keep it running isn't free.

[MikeA]

Several years ago, some of the trout guys on the Caney Fork got together and got TWRA to pass a "trophy section" on the river.  Between Happy Hollow and Betty's Island, there was a special regulation of no bait fishing and special size restrictions.  It was a fantastic regulation, but the local bait fishermen were furious.
The locals went to their elected Representative, and he got the Tennessee General Assembly to pass a "Private Act" repealing TWRA's regulation and proclaiming, essentially, that no meaningful trophy section could ever be established on the Caney ever again.  That law is still on the books.

That's why the new trophy brown trout regulations had to apply to the whole river.  
bd

Carma's a bitch aint it.

[MikeA]

Nope, I don't have an ex. Been married to my wife for 19 years.

[Bfish]

Closing down a popular live bait area full of catch and keep fishermen is not going to happen, especially when you consider you are trying to regulate changes to over 40+ years of fishing in the hot hole.  I would look at alternatives: say education efforts on handling, circle hooks use, length of live bait restriction etc.  Closure is just going to make enemies.

Backlash could easily result in no stocking (or limited) in the future.  It has happen before with Northern Pike on Melton Hill.  Besides the state musky program, as a whole, IMO, would benefit more from stocking numberous rivers, rather one reservoir.  

..... all I am worried about is having 50 inch muskies to fish for. .....

 Since you are profiting from a public resource, I bet you are. However, your business concerns don't neccessarily trump what is the best management, especially concerning multiple fisheries.

[MikeA]

Mike....I was just joking....you misspelled karma....     by that last comment on being concerned about 50'inch makes just for business....what about the trout fly guides concerned about limits on tailwaters and fighting against harvest from bait fishermen? Whats the difference? Billy guides but only got to that point by a reputation for catching big musky for the sheer fun.of it. As a guide he can justify more time on the water and assume position of greater influence and expertise for the sake of the fish.

Damn it, I did didn't I. Guess it shows how often I actually get to use that phrase huh.

[MikeA]

First and foremost IMO. MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO USE GAMEFISH FOR BAIT IN TN!!!!  This potentially hurts alot of different fisheries and puts some stocked trout rivers at risk unnecessarily. Honestly,, take off the training wheels and fish like a man  . (I'm kidding,, sort of) It's time to stop that practice.

I can tell you from experience that keeping trout is very simple but keeping most of the other alternative large baits is next to impossible. Make it illegal to use gamefish and the problem will just about solve itself.

[gaspergou]

Winter must be setting in up there, folks are already getting bitchy. People need to get out and fish more.

Larry's show isn't going to cause the death of TWRA, and an education program will only get you so far. Some folks just can't be "edjumacated" and are going to keep their dead-set opinions until they die, thus the need for effective management policies. There's no other situation in the State (and few anywhere) that I'm aware of where so high of a proportion of a fish population packs into one small area and are so highly vulnerable. A temporary closure while the plant is generating would be no different than regulations to close portions of the SOHO for spawning. I've e-fished the discharge when it's on and there's not very many other fish in there then, it's predominantly muskie, shad, and buffalo.

Sheesh! I got away from traditional fisheries management because it's 99% people management. Most people irritate the piss out of me, I much prefer fish!

We don't currently have the capacity to rear enough juvenile muskies to have a stocking program that's much more widespread than it currently is. Stocking fry is about worthless, as survivorship is near zero. We're better off with fewer larger fish stocked into MH, which has well demonstrated the ability to grow and produce trophy muskies at a density that supports a real fishery, then have a bunch of small fish scattered hither and yon.

TWRA is making steps forward, and is aware at the highest levels just what they have in the muskie fishery. The situation at the hothole is being monitored. It's not that horrible of a place to be, management-wise. Honestly, it's surprising that TVA didn't step in after 9/11 and close ALL of the discharges for security reasons.

[MikeA]

Like I said those fish come from God knows where and could potentially spread God knows what to a healthy trout population. As responsible anglers I think minimally we should  have a moral obligation to treat gamefish with more respect. As a law enforcement agency we should protect all gamefish.

I don't know of anybody who fly fishes trout farms. If they do they its time for them to man up too.