WTB: Fishing Kayak

[MikeA]

Yea it makes you scared as hell on a long class II's like some of the ones on Emory... You better not get scared halfway through.

[MidTNKayakAngler]

The first time on faster water was in a Tarpon 160i, and that was real interesting taking a class 2 sideways, and a 2' plus drop in a 16' kayak. The 4 others I was with couldn't believe I made it through without a yardsale. Now that was pucker factor.

Soon after that I bought a Coosa, it had just come out and it was the "greatest" boat on the market. The class II's were no longer a problem as long I was in the low position. Since I don't make many trips over to East Tenness now I got rid of the Coosa, and if I plan on a rough water outing just take the Tarpon 120. I can't stand, but it's a kayak I can use in any water, and makes a good loaner for someone with no or very little experience.

Jeremy

[Bfish]

... Any recommendation on how to eddy out in a coosa?? ...

Short answer is like you would in a whitewater boat.

I agree with what Jeremy says about sitting in the high position. So below I am talking about in the low position.

The Coosa hull has almost no keel and has lots of rocker (bow to stern banana shape), so it will need to slide into the turn. While most rec. boats (sink and sot) have fairly strong keel lines and minimum rocker.

If you are directly heading downstream and you want to eddy out behind a boulder on your left.  You will give a small sweeping stroke on your right, in order to stick your bow into the eddy and to give some speed to cross the eddy line (where the downstream and reverse eddy current meet, ie seam). Next you will plant your left blade into the water, nearly vertical (this is the point you pivot about).  You hull should be tilted so that the right (starboard) side is deeper in the water.  At this point you should be in the eddy and facing back upstream (and kayak hull should now be level).  If you continue to flex your wrist on the pivot and finish off with front stroke (while lowering the left (port) side),  you can continue back out into the current.   

The eddy out "stroke" is called duffek.  Might want to utube it, cause it much easier to see than type up (whitewater slalom).   I know you didn't ask about the stroke, but it illustrates the hip movement needed.  Think of it as running along, grabbing a flag pole, and spinning yourself around to continue back the direction you started from. 

With a strongly keeled boat (say Tarpon/Manta Ray/Pescadors/Redfish clones), the duffek just can't be done. Without getting too technical, the keel helps you power into the eddy, but you keep cruising through it (or requires you  to make bunches of sweep strokes once in the eddy to face back up stream).  The goal in this type hull is keep it level.  On real strong eddylines, too strong of keel will snap you upside down too.  To avoid, you lean into the current (directly opposite of what you do in a whitewater boat or river canoe).   

So in the Coosa, when in doubt, slightly lean on the edge the direction the current is going.  The lack of keel (along with tall sides) is why the Coosa gets blown around in the wind.

PS the Emory system has some of the strong eddylines in the state (with Nolichucky gorge a close second), IMO.

[MikeA]

Great explanation Bfish, thank you for taking the time to explain. I need to get on the river (when it's warmer) and play around with this technique.

[MidTNKayakAngler]

Great explaination Bfish. I really need to take some paddling instruction. My stroke is good and efficient, but as for reading water, and navigating rapids I just squeeze my butt cheeks together, and paddle like hell.

Jeremy

[Bfish]

Great explaination Bfish. I really need to take some paddling instruction. My stroke is good and efficient, but as for reading water, and navigating rapids I just squeeze my butt cheeks together, and paddle like hell.

Just come fish with me, I will get you on some pucker water.

Edit to add:
Invite is open to anyone

[MidTNKayakAngler]

When's the best time? Days of week? You can PM me if you want. I'm in the market for a new paddle, the Adventure Technology is getting worn. Looking for a Werner, I think they may hold up a little better to rocks, and the abuse. 240cm is just to long for my stroke also, I bury the entire blade and 3" up on the grip. Thinking 230 or maybe 225.


Jeremy

[jkilday4]

I went and picked up Mike's Coosa this past Saturday after trying a neighbor's out and researching them online a good bit.  I got a couple of those Ratchet Ropes from Lowe's and it's hanging in my shed - pulled it straight up off the floor, so it's not hanging at a side angle; surely this method of hanging is ok?  I had a friend question me on how to properly store it; I do know that the one I borrowed's underside (about a third way back from bow point) was caved in & he said it was due to his setting it on sawhorses & cushions.  He hopes inserting a basketball into the hull and heating it up will return it to original form...

Good dialogue on the eddy-out maneuver - rook here's got a lot to learn & hopefully not drown.  Bfish, I youtube'd the duffek stroke - good stuff, thanks again. 

[MidTNKayakAngler]

As for storage, I've built stands out of PVC, and they are working great. Here's a blog I wrote about the stand http://kayakfishingblog.com/2012/01/kayak-stand-build/

These stands are strong enough that I can place two kayaks on top of each other and place on one stand.

In the garage I had before I built hoists into the rafters with 4 supporting points on each kayak, and pulleys. This also worked well, but much more time consuming on the build, and more expensive.

With your hoist system you are using as long as you are not just supporting it from the front and rear I think it would be ok, or the handles. I like at least 3 supporting points, and prefer 4.

As with the Coosa with the bowed underside. There should be a piece of black foam inside, it should be located just in front of the cup holder and wedged in there to keep the form of the hull. I had to add more support to Sarah's because her Coosa was doing the same thing. I cut large pool noodles to the length I needed and smashed then in the hull between the underside of the kayak and the deck, from the inside of the kayak, I accessed this area through the front hatch. Then I used Lexell to secure the pool noodles. We noticed when the front/underside of the Coosa was bowed in it pushed more water than normal and didn't paddle efficiently.

This could be caused from missing support, over tightening straps, heat making the hull softer, or other issues I'm not aware of.

Jeremy

[jkilday4]

As for storage, I've built stands out of PVC, and they are working great. Here's a blog I wrote about the stand http://kayakfishingblog.com/2012/01/kayak-stand-build/

These stands are strong enough that I can place two kayaks on top of each other and place on one stand.

In the garage I had before I built hoists into the rafters with 4 supporting points on each kayak, and pulleys. This also worked well, but much more time consuming on the build, and more expensive.

With your hoist system you are using as long as you are not just supporting it from the front and rear I think it would be ok, or the handles. I like at least 3 supporting points, and prefer 4.

As with the Coosa with the bowed underside. There should be a piece of black foam inside, it should be located just in front of the cup holder and wedged in there to keep the form of the hull. I had to add more support to Sarah's because her Coosa was doing the same thing. I cut large pool noodles to the length I needed and smashed then in the hull between the underside of the kayak and the deck, from the inside of the kayak, I accessed this area through the front hatch. Then I used Lexell to secure the pool noodles. We noticed when the front/underside of the Coosa was bowed in it pushed more water than normal and didn't paddle efficiently.

This could be caused from missing support, over tightening straps, heat making the hull softer, or other issues I'm not aware of.

Jeremy

Those are nice homemade stands, Jeremy.  If I had the space, I would probably copy that.

I am hoisting up at front and rear only - at the handles.  This is the way my folks hoist their Hobies too.  I guess you're of the opinion that this would weaken the handles over time?

[MikeA]

You might want to contact Jackson and see if you can get some of the new new solid (hook Proof) handles.

[Bfish]

When's the best time? Days of week?

Tuesdays, but other weekdays work too (wife is retail and has some of them off on every other schedule).

John, the best way to store is on edge (ie sideways) with a wide strap (or padded with a foam noodle) in a loop/sling.
If not, stand it on end, in corner. On edge, on the floor would another option. Keeping it lifted by the handles supposedly can cause the screw to wallow out a larger hole.





 

[MidTNKayakAngler]

Those are nice homemade stands, Jeremy.  If I had the space, I would probably copy that.

I am hoisting up at front and rear only - at the handles.  This is the way my folks hoist their Hobies too.  I guess you're of the opinion that this would weaken the handles over time?

The stands fold up. As for hoisting by the handles, that's a lot of weight on such a small contact point for long periods at a time. Like Bfish stated wide straps to give more surface area support is better, and I come in a few feet on the bow and stern to have more surface area on the kayak touched by the straps also.

[TimM]

Although I know nothing about yaks per se I do know a thing or two about plastic and how it behaves.  As I understand the problem you guys are describing with deformation occurring during storage this is likely a phenomenon known as creep which is exhibited by all plastics to varying degrees. Basically it's just continued deformation over time with no increase in load as the molecules realign themselves to relieve residual stresses in the part. As it happens HDPE (what yaks are made of) is one of the most creep prone thermoplastics in existence.  To minimize the extent to which this occurs you should reduce the span between supports and support as much of the surface as possible - e.g. wider straps, more straps etc. It would be a bit of a pain I suppose but one option for an elevated storage approach might be to  make a small cradle like device from 2x4's or whatever  that would support the yak from front to rear along the entire length of it's hull at least on these two lines and then attach the lifting straps to the cradle/runners. I picturing something like a really scaled down version of the bunks on a boat trailer.   More work for sure but it would/should stop the deformation while in storage problem. 

[Steve H]

Although I know nothing about yaks per se I do know a thing or two about plastic and how it behaves.  As I understand the problem you guys are describing with deformation occurring during storage this is likely a phenomenon known as creep which is exhibited by all plastics to varying degrees. Basically it's just continued deformation over time with no increase in load as the molecules realign themselves to relieve residual stresses in the part. As it happens HDPE (what yaks are made of) is one of the most creep prone thermoplastics in existence.  To minimize the extent to which this occurs you should reduce the span between supports and support as much of the surface as possible - e.g. wider straps, more straps etc. It would be a bit of a pain I suppose but one option for an elevated storage approach might be to  make a small cradle like device from 2x4's or whatever  that would support the yak from front to rear along the entire length of it's hull at least on these two lines and then attach the lifting straps to the cradle/runners. I picturing something like a really scaled down version of the bunks on a boat trailer.   More work for sure but it would/should stop the deformation while in storage problem.

Tim,

Love to read someone who understands the technology we are working with and how it behaves.

We have such a wealth of knowledge from so many industries on this board!

Steve