Trophy Fishing TN Forum - Caney Fork Trout Fly Fishing - Caney Fork Trout Guide

Out of State => Out of State Fly Fishing => Topic started by: icthus on November 27, 2010, 09:06:41 PM

Title: Red River
Post by: icthus on November 27, 2010, 09:06:41 PM
Smokin :D ;) :D ;D ;D > ;D

Has made up for the trip to the White!!!

Icthus
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Glenn Hawkins on November 27, 2010, 10:11:34 PM
Yeah Right ::)  I need some Pics ???
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Steve Howard on November 28, 2010, 08:14:46 AM
Without pictures this never happened.   ;D
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: grumpy on November 28, 2010, 08:23:35 AM
Yeah Right ::)  I need some Pics ???

Without pictures this never happened.   ;D

WORD

I told you so ;)

Grumpy
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: toddro on November 28, 2010, 12:26:59 PM
I hope you're talking Red River, NM.  Great fishing in that area.  If you're talking the Red River in Ark, YMMV.   :D
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: icthus on November 29, 2010, 07:53:53 PM
The last three days reminded me of the cumberland in the glory days.  The weather was awesome, the company was great, and the fishing was out of this world.  We had 2, 50 plus fish days and the third was close to 40 a piece.  The first day, I would stand on a rock and call my fish be it bows or browns.   The second day we went to a deeper larger run and I broke numerous fish off on 5x some off on 4x;  and heard a man dog cuss a fish so bad it would make a sailor look like a saint.  Jay.... great trip, good laughs, good memories, and its not always the first one to the island, but knowing where to fish at the island is the key.... :D :D :D :D      

A fella had a fire going at 3:30 in the morning to make sure he had the best spot on a run,  jay and I go cruising up at 5:45 in the morning only to see the guy standing on the wrong side of the island waiting for the sun.  Three hours later and 45 fish between us and both, and losing double digit fish along the way the fella walks up and ask what we were using.  Jay, in his calm humble approach say, I am sure the same thing you are and sticks a 24" right in front of him.   The guy then ask what size, and he looks at him straight faced and tells him, "You know I cant tell you all my secrets, (even if the first secret wasn't true)  ;D You might have had to been there, but it was one of the funnier things I have seen on a river.  Enjoy the porn
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0304.jpg)
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0313.jpg)
stayed at lindseys--over priced, not worth it, stay at lobo landing--$179.00 a night and my college dorm room was better(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0297.jpg)(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0319.jpg)(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0302.jpg)(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0306.jpg)(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0308.jpg)
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0316.jpg)
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/eatmyfly/IMG_0323.jpg)

Amazing fishery!
Blessings
Icthus


Grumpy-your words were true...
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Phil Landry on November 29, 2010, 08:28:15 PM
Spawn Rape is nothing to be proud of.
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Looper Flies on November 29, 2010, 09:45:54 PM
That looks like some serious fun!
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: icthus on November 29, 2010, 10:00:13 PM
Phil

I couldn't agree more.  Luckily for me and my mind I can sleep because we didn't catch all/most of them spawning because the water was to low for them to move up on the shoals. Not to say they weren't going to spawn, but I wasnt getting spewed on and eggs werent dropping on me. (red asses and sow bugs and a few other flies were working; 14-18's depending on the time of day and water clarity)

I fish 52 weeks a year, I fish the beach in the summer for snook.  The inlets in the fall for reds. The bays in may for tarpon, and the fall for bone fish and hybrid.  I understand protecting the resources we have been blessed with, however, I also fish where the fish are, and where I can catch the biggest fish.

Moreover, my goal was to have fun and catch fish, and thank good Lord I did both.   Furthermore, I believe it is important to revive any fish after a valiant fight.

Blessings,
Icthus
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: TWiles on November 29, 2010, 10:07:58 PM
Glad you guys got out there for a great trip Craig.  My heart ached to be there this whole weekend...but my time with  family was important and well spent.  Jay needed a good fishing buddy, and you definitely pulled through.  November in Arkansas is one of my favorite getaways that I hope to enjoy the rest of my life.
Crystal and I are already planning a Cabin there for next Thanksgiving.

Travis
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: jarrod white on November 29, 2010, 10:56:30 PM
well at least you sprung for a warm place to sleep this time :)
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: toddro on November 29, 2010, 11:04:15 PM
nice report, great pics, beauty fish!
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Phil Landry on November 30, 2010, 11:32:54 AM

None of that makes it right.  Fishing at Cow Shoals in late November is spawn rape.... and many other places too (Beech, Jon's Pocket, Richey, Bakers Ford, Schronchner's, Mossy, Rainbow etc etc) 
Actually many fish right now are spawning in the channels because the river is so low, and if they don't spawn there they hold there during the day to try to avoid the hoards. 
These fish are packed in tight and territorial, they will eat anything... like the egg pattern wedged in the corner of ones mouth in your pics.
It doesn't matter what you made them eat or if they were directly on top of a bed or not.
It's not sporting and and it is shooting the river in the foot.  Those fish get caught 5 times a week right now.
As you have demonstrated, people put them on the ground to take pictures of them a couple of times a week.
People foul hook them several times a week, drag them up on the rocks to land them etc etc.
Some jack wagon foul hooks the fish of a lifetime and fights it for 30 minutes = dead fish.
If you go look downstream from spawning grounds all over ther river there are big dead browns.

(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p45/pblandry/pics/Fishpics653.jpg)

We will never have a chance at another world record because of this, we lose too many of our bigger fish to this each year.
Spawn rape is a greedy behavior...  but people do it all day everyday right now, and it's at the river's and the fish's expense.
You say it's an incredible fishery, but it is not what it once was.  You should have seen it in the early '90s before people lined up to stake out their spots near or on spawning grounds all day everyday.
30 inch fish were almost common then... now, not so much.  You saw the crowds at Cow Shoals, how can you not think that a month of that doesn't take it's toll on the fish?

Go fish sometime during the rest of the year to really see what the fishery is about.  Those browns have three times the fight in them in the Spring. 
Catch them in the summer, when a 24" Brown is a big accomplishment.  Don't turn into one of those poeple that only fishes on the Red in November... we already have too many of those.

I'd say I'm sorry for this, but I'm not.  Your publicizing the thing that is the biggest threat to the river I work on and love the most.


Phil Landry




Title: Re: Red River
Post by: TFTN Admin on November 30, 2010, 12:28:37 PM
I'll do it on stocked rivers where the pressure is low. Once people start lining up it turns me off. I've taken heat over this in the past because I was stressing fish,,, only to later see the entire river get pretty much decimated by the COE. I sure am glad I took the opportunity to have the fun we had on that river and I don't regret any of it.

As for natural reproducing rivers where the pressure is high I'd most likely have to pass. one thing I don't understand is how the Steelheaders get a pass for spawn rape?
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: toddro on November 30, 2010, 02:13:02 PM
The SoHo closes certain sections of the river from Nov-Jan to protect spawning fish, as do other rivers.  Why do the rivers in Arkansas not do this if it is such an issue? 

Washington St. closes rivers when salmon and steelhead are actively spawning and on redds, so the fish you are fishing to during an open season are on the run, not on the redd.  Even in rivers that are open during a salmon spawn, you cannot legally fish to them, even though the river may be open to other species. 

This has always been an interesting ethics discussion for me...
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Phil Landry on November 30, 2010, 02:27:13 PM
"The SoHo closes certain sections of the river from Nov-Jan to protect spawning fish, as do other rivers.  Why do the rivers in Arkansas not do this if it is such an issue? "

If you want the answer, follow the money.  Arkansas has a short sighted approach dependant upon tourism dollars.  People come from all over to fish the spawn...
if you look around in the parking lot at Cow Shoals almost all the tags are from out of state.  The towns near these rivers have become dependant upon that $
and will never vote to change it.  They did shut down the upper area on the White many years ago to protect those fish... the whining and catterwalling that followed
was terrible.  AGFC did the right thing in that case, but caught nine kinds of hell for it.   
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: icthus on November 30, 2010, 03:05:52 PM
Phil,

Great discussion!  Thank you for sharing your opinion, and I can't agree more with some prudent and well thought out points you have delivered.  I believe drawing attention on a large forum such as this great site only draws attention to something that you say you don't want, fishing to spawning fish.  More people have called over the last 24 hours to ask where to stay, how long of a drive, and what guide to use, etc.

I can honestly say I supported your local economy, and I'm sure your resorts, wal-mart, and local co
Police appreciated it. As for not viewing things the way you do, well that's why we have 96 different kinds of religion.

Good luck on the river
Blessings

Icthus
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Steve Howard on November 30, 2010, 05:15:18 PM
Thanks for the fish porn.  :o
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: grumpy on November 30, 2010, 06:39:10 PM
At one time they  were shutting Cow Shoals down, did they stop doing that/

Grumpy
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Phil Landry on November 30, 2010, 09:06:11 PM
They shut it down at night, but that's it.  It was like pulling teeth to get them to do that according to Jeff. 
That was before I was involved enough to know the system.  At least folks dont go in there and snag with
streamers or glow bugs at night like they used to... I guess we have to count our tiny blessings.
 
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: B PRICE on December 01, 2010, 10:11:36 PM
This is a terrible thing to do and Craig you should be ashamed for preying on something when its wits are not with them .They should just close all the rivers that have trout in them this time of year. What you did is just like hunting deer in the rutting season or spring turkey hunting and elk when they are doing there thing  . What is with people now a days these are the times of the year you should stay at home with your family .
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: icthus on December 01, 2010, 11:30:09 PM
Bill, go to hear from you, you up for going this weekend?



Welcome back,
Your Pal,
Pal
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Bfish on December 02, 2010, 08:57:48 AM
"The SoHo closes certain sections of the river from Nov-Jan to protect spawning fish, as do other rivers.  Why do the rivers in Arkansas not do this if it is such an issue? "

If I remember correctly, the spawning surveys on the SOHO showed that fish reproduction was making a significant contribution to the population and while compared to the Arkansas tailwaters which had almost no contribution to the population.  I believe it was Mark Nemeith (spp) or Shawn Banks authored papers.
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Phil Landry on December 02, 2010, 11:09:03 AM
The Little Red River is 100% wild when it comes to Brown trout.  They haven't stocked fertilized eggs or fingerlings since the 1970's.  So, get your facts straight.  The White and Norfork still stock some Browns, although most are wild.  AGFC brands the stocked Browns on the White and Norfork with a very small liquid nitrogen burn mark.  If you know the "code" you can tell a wild from a stocked and even what year they stocked that fish based on the position of the marking.

Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Travis C. on December 02, 2010, 11:19:12 AM
This is always a touchy subject for folks. Trout seem to be the darlings of fish as they are always at the center of this debate. No one cares this much that bass are fished for on bed, crappie, sauger or walleye or white bass family during spawning runs and who hasnít taken home a cooler of bluegill from the first full moon in May off bed. Salmon and steelhead are sought after when they do their thing and even businesses are built around that expectation of it happening every year.

Just funny to me that this always whether on this board or somewhere else just seems to deal with trout as if the same practices with all the other species are okay.

Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Travis C. on December 02, 2010, 11:21:19 AM
Phil- have they shown any signs of the Cuts or Brooks reproducing over there?
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Phil Landry on December 02, 2010, 12:10:37 PM
Not to my knowlege Travis.  Cuts don't even exist in the Little Red anymore, but there are lots on the White and Norfork.  In all the years I've been fishing over there I don't think I have never seen a cut or a brook spawn.  I wouldn't doubt that they might try... I've seen brookies all colored up, but I think the changes in water level and the lack of good pea gravel areas on the red probably keep it from being successfull.  The White... maybe because the White is one big spawning bed as far as gravel goes.  It's possible on a low water year or something that there could be some success there, probably not anything to speak of statistically, but it could happen I suppose.  I'll ask my buddy who is a trout biologist for AGFC next time I talk to him.
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: toddro on December 02, 2010, 12:30:54 PM
This is always a touchy subject for folks. Trout seem to be the darlings of fish as they are always at the center of this debate. No one cares this much that bass are fished for on bed, crappie, sauger or walleye or white bass family during spawning runs and who hasnít taken home a cooler of bluegill from the first full moon in May off bed. Salmon and steelhead are sought after when they do their thing and even businesses are built around that expectation of it happening every year.

Just funny to me that this always whether on this board or somewhere else just seems to deal with trout as if the same practices with all the other species are okay.

Excellent point, Travis.  If you read just about any article on fishing for smallmouth, it will say you'd better have a line in the water 2 days before the first full moon in April.  Why?  Evidently that is the days when smallies are at their horniest...  ;)  Most articles will pinpoint the exact depth of water and the type of bottom you are looking for to find the most spawning fish possible.  And there are the articles of spawning carp...  ;D
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: Bfish on December 02, 2010, 01:02:47 PM
....  So, get your facts straight.  ...

Hmm, a little touchy.  :o Notice I said Arkansas tailwaters, not anything specifically about little Red or any other specific system.  

PS just cause the fish go through spawning motions, does not mean they contribute to the population. Watguga would be a good example.
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: countryflyfisher on December 02, 2010, 07:30:41 PM
here is how I look at it have you ever been in a bar and had a fat ugly girl put the block on you taking her hot good looking friend home. Don t be the blocker  ;)
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: kaisersoze on December 03, 2010, 08:45:18 AM
Ifn I ever caught me some fish that big, I'd be havin' fish for a week. And Phil, why you catchin' dead fish? Live ones are more fun.
Title: Re: Red River
Post by: icthus on December 03, 2010, 06:49:41 PM
Palll? Pall!!! PaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!