where to start?

[Yoda]

Thinking about learning to build rods. Fly as well as spinning, any advice on equipment, Tutorials, videos, and such.

[Bfish]

Tom Kirkman's got a nice book, lots of pictures, pretty cheap too.

Mudhole.com has some online videos and tutorials for the very basics. Bob McKamey who used to live on the Duck works for Mudhole and would be a good person to call to seek advice on blanks and materials for your needs, since he knows your waters (Elk right).

[Looper Flies]

Feather Craft has a rod building kit i've had my eye on for some time.


http://www.feather-craft.com/wecs.php?store=feacraft&action=display&target=CP007

TOOLS OF THE TRADE COMPLETE ROD BUILDING START-UP KIT Flex-Coat, the leading manufacturer of equipment and finishing products for the individual rod builder, has bundled together everything needed to get started building casting, spinning or fly rods like a pro. In fact, they like to call this their "SMALL BUSINESS START UP KIT" bcuz everything is here to turn you into a custom rod builder and rod repair shop. THIS KIT INCLUDES: Professional Hand Rod Wrapper, Professional Finishing Motor, "Step-By-Step Rod Building" book, Rod Building "How We Do It" DVD, all of the necessary epoxies, glues and adhesives, utility knife with 6-extra blades, 12-foot roll of reamer abrasive, thread and line clippers, finishing brushes, measuring syringes, mixing cups and sticks

[MikeA]

That kit is a good starting point. I'll add some random input as well.
 
Most Important Rule! Remember, your building a rod for quality and longevity that you can't find in retail stores, not to do it cheaply. If your doing it to save a few bucks, your wasting your time. Stick with high quality blanks and components such as Fuji guides, flexcoat, REC, etc. Some folks might take offense to this but a good builder can build a much better rod then any of the top manufactures out there. It's the time, attention to detail, and component selection that will put your rod above all others. Granted you won't build out every rod to the max,, but it's fun to build and own a few.
  
Youtube will have some good videos. Learn the Forhan locking wrap. Use flexcaot thin finish. Spline your blanks. Learn fuji concept system for spinning and casting rod guide placement. Use flexcoat arbors. Keep your double edge razors off the floor!!! OUCH!@!**#$&&*@#&^*!. Burnish every wrap. Flame every wrap before finish. Avoid bubbles when mixing finish. Avoid footballs when applying finish. Flame each wrap after applying finish (helps suck finish under the wraps and get rid of bubbles). NEVER USE COLOR PRESERVER on guide wraps. In my experience it seals the wraps preventing finish from getting through to the blank. That leads to problems down the road. The only positive thing I found about color preserver is it makes the guides extremely easy to remove from the blank when you decide you have to rebuild them because the Color Preserver screwed them up..... Some people will argue but trust me and just avoid the stuff.
Four piece rods are easier to build then one piece. Take your time with the cork. If you over ream it and make a hollow spot it will be loose in that spot. Learn the clove hitch for simple deco wraps.  Got to rodbuilding.org forum and ask away. There are some amazing builders there. Just don't get too carried away with all the scientific data and so forth. It's just a fishing rod!!!  

[countryflyfisher]

If you want I ll show you the basics of wrapping the guides one day

[Yoda]

Thanks guys!!

[Leo deMonbreun]

I fully agree with most of what Mike has to say, certainly about components, and methodology but I would add that when it comes to color preservers, I have to use them sometimes on bamboo because of the nature of the thread (i.e. Jaspers to be specific).  conventional color preservers do exactly what Mike has said, they will prevent a good bond to the rod of the wrap. Most of the conventional color preservers are water based and anything that is water based will not lock the threads to the rod.  Too, while they protect the colors somewhat, the colors will typically darken a little from their actual starting color.  However, you probably have, and just don't know it, one of the finest color preservers already on your tying bench.  The best I have found is clear gloss lacquer!   It penetrates the thread and sets up a really good bond to the rod blank and keeps the color as close to natural as is possible.  Most any of the non-water based head cements work very very well for that. Just thin them enough to get smooth even coverage, and with the lacquer, 2 coats usually does it.  NEVER put the lacquer on over a varnish though....gator city!!

I don't wrap many of the single foot guides but when I do, they are locked with Forhan's method, it works and works well and the best thing about it is that it gives a nice epoxy lock in front of the single guide foot.

Also, I don't use single edged or double edged razor blades.  I found the matt cutting blades that are used in picture frame shops are the absolute best thing out there for cutting and they outlast single or double edged razor blades 10 to one.  there are two types of them. One is sharpened on both sides of the blade but the one that does best is actually sharpened on only one side.  The ones you can by at Hobby Lobby are double edged and they work well.  I get mine from my sister that owns a framing shop in ET. You can also find them on eBay from time to time.

Couldn't agree more about burnishing and singing the wraps, to prevent boo-boo's.  I used to use one of the burnishers sold by most of the vendors but I wrap a lot of silk and I need a reduced amount of friction when burnishing.  I found a piece of petrified wood at the flea market that is very highly polished and it is the best burnishing tool I have used.  Burnishing, tightens wraps, and smooths the thread out prior to finishing, just be cautious around guide feet, too much pressure can cut the wrap.

[icthus]

I am offended.  Just as much as I hate to dance with the Dan craft 3wt.

your pals pal,
Pal

[TimM]

I've thought about this some since the original post and it seems to me there must be a significant difference in the stresses that a fly rod sees with the repeated flexing in the casting process vs. what spinning and conventional rods see in use.  The basis for my inference is that over the last few years I've built a fair number of spinning and conventional style rods, used color preserver on all of them, have caught numbers of large fish on pretty much all of them - including a lot of fish on lines that are actually heavier than what the rod was designed for (like the 30 or 40 75-100 lb lemon sharks using 80 # braid and perhaps a dozen or so 50-75 lb tarpon on 50# mono all with stuff I use to striper fish with ) - not mention the times I've had a bait get hung up and literally stopped my boat in a 2-3 mph current with the rod -  and after several years of this sort of use I have never had a single guide/wrap fail. Not one.  Hence the inference that perhaps this is unique to fly rods due to the repetitive flexing that is more or less along the entire length of the blank...or perhaps it has to do with the size of the guides/guide feet?   Just one more example of the devil really is in the details and one size really does not fit all, imho.  To each their own - carry on.

Oh a couple of other things...I've tried several different mfgs' finishes - the last 3 or 4 rods I've built I used the " Pro-Kote" that MudHole is selling and imo it is by far the best of the ones I've tried. Hands down, levels more easily, releases bubbles more easily and is really, really clear when dried.   Something else I don't think I saw mentioned in the thread that I've found helpful is to boil a small bowl of water in the microwave and then place the bottles of finish in the water for a few minutes before mixing them. This reduces the viscosity of the components which, imo, makes it release bubbles and level out better.  In theory it should also cause it to set faster - for every 10 degrees C you raise the temperature of the mix it should double the rate of reaction between the components.

[MikeA]

I knew you'd chime in on this one.  The failures I had were on spinning rods with single foot guides that worked loose. What really turned me off was when I cut the threads off there was no fishing on the blank except where the finish went past the wraps.The CP had prevented it from penetrating the thread and bonding with the blank. Granted these were my first builds so thread tension might not have been correct or any number of things but IMO if I had omitted the CP,, the wraps would not have failed. One of the other things I've seen is moisture seeping under the wraps and clouding the finish on CP wraps.

I know it's possible to use CP and have good results. I've read the multi paged threads that go back and forth over whether or not ti use it. I maintain that it really doesn't do anything that functionally makes the rod better. It's purely cosmetic, so if your just starting to learn you might be better off to just avoid it.

Haven't tried the new finish but I'm game for anything that makes that process easier/better! Have you got one of those electric mixing bowls?

[TimM]

I knew you'd chime in on this one. 

Yeah....I saw the hook in that skippy....but chose to bite anyway after I thought about it a while driving home from KW.   

I maintain that it really doesn't do anything that functionally makes the rod better. It's purely cosmetic

No disagreement there - it is purely cosmetic. Although it was function that got me started building my own rods - I just couldn't find what I wanted commercially - I figured while I was at it I'd go for unique aesthetics at the same time and found it too difficult to predict what I was going to get - color wise - in wraps where I didn't use the CP.  It just wasn't worth putting the time into producing elaborate wraps only to have the colors turn out very different than what I was planning on them being.

Have you got one of those electric mixing bowls?

Yes I do and I do think it helps.


I also have a task light over my work area and prior to applying any finish I'll hold the cup of mixed finish directly under the bulb within an inch or so with the intent being that the heat from the bulb will help release some bubbles too. Can't say for sure that it helps but I have the sense that it does and it doesn't hurt.

[Leo deMonbreun]

I also have a task light over my work area and prior to applying any finish I'll hold the cup of mixed finish directly under the bulb within an inch or so with the intent being that the heat from the bulb will help release some bubbles too. Can't say for sure that it helps but I have the sense that it does and it doesn't hurt.

I do much the same thing Tim when I do use epoxy.  Pre heating the epoxy does make it mix better and I also have a task light over my bench that has a flat back on it above the bulb.  I mix epoxy in a small glass with a very thick bottom on in and I sit the mixed epoxy on the back of the light to heat it up.  It helps in a couple of ways i think, it is thinner so it applies and absorbs better and I think it helps to eliminate any bubbles that may form.  If bubbles do form and they will usually form on raw threads, a simple exhale on the wrap and they are gone.  I do think it reduces the pot life of the mixture though.