Health Care Bill

[Steve H]

Steve check those facts buddy.

I prefaced it. I was quoting off a site with some interpretation. Some of those are on old revisions of the bill as well. This ain't my first rodeo.   

[John M]

No preexisting conditions.  Great,  Ill just wait to get cancer and then get insurance.  Then I can suck out all the premiums you guys paid in   Then bottom line is somebody has to pay for it guys it is not free.  And with car insurance you do have a choice, you just can't drive a car

[Steve H]

No preexisting conditions.  Great,  Ill just wait to get cancer and then get insurance.  Then I can suck out all the premiums you guys paid in   Then bottom line is somebody has to pay for it guys it is not free.  And with car insurance you do have a choice, you just can't drive a car

 

[MikeA]

Well that means you have a choice then. If your 18 and single then maybe it's a good idea to do without it. If you have a family it's pretty short sighted and will cost you a lot more in the long run.

I had a talk with a friend about this today and he asked me how the insurance companies were going to pay for all these "luxuries". Higher premiums that's how, he stated. Well,, my premiums have been steadily rising (about 150 to 200 %) and benefits steadily decreasing for the last five years so I have come to expect this every renewal period. At least now I have some insurance that protects my investment in that insurance company from them just dropping me if I start to cost them money. I honestly believe that there are some good parts to this bill.

I'm not ready to jump on the Obama band wagon just yet but I also don't think this is the beginning of the end either.

[Steve H]

Here's some good info that was posted on Factcheck.org last week before the final vote.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/a-final-weekend-of-whoppers/

[Steve H]

No one has posted the link so I thought I would. Here is a link to the bill text. Happy reading.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

[bd]

No preexisting conditions.  Great,  Ill just wait to get cancer and then get insurance. 

Wait a second, you can't complain that everybody HAS to get insurance and simultaneously complain that people WON'T get insurance until they need it.

Pick one argument or the other - you're contradicting yourself.

bd

[bd]

An interesting run-down on the portions of the Healthcare bill that will be implemented immediately (contrary to the talk radio talking point that "taxes start right away but the benefits don't kick in for years").

I predict that the Republicans will back off of their campaign to repeal the entire healthcare bill between now and the 2010 election, because repeal sounds like great rhetoric but some of these changes will be very popular:

***
What’s In The Health Reform Bill For You Right Away?

Under the legislative package the House passed on Sunday (the Senate-passed health bill as amended by the reconciliation bill) many key provisions take effect this year - here are some of them:

IF YOU ARE A SMALL BUSINESSES OWNER:

SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDITS—Offers tax credits to small businesses to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums will be immediately available. Effective beginning for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2014, small business tax credits will cover 50 percent of premiums.)

IF YOU ARE A SENIOR:

BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE—Provides a $250 rebate to Medicare beneficiaries who hit the donut hole in 2010. Effective for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2011, institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs in the donut hole; also completely closes the donut hole by 2020.)

FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER MEDICARE—Eliminates co-payments for preventive services and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program. Effective beginning January 1, 2011.

HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES—Creates a temporary re-insurance program (until the Exchanges are available) to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64. Effective 90 days after enactment.

IF YOU HAVE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE:

NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST CHILDREN WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS—Prohibits health plans from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, this prohibition would apply to adults as well.)

NO RESCISSIONS—Bans health plans from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Effective 6 months after enactment.

NO LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Prohibits health plans from placing lifetime caps on coverage. Effective 6 months after enactment.

NO RESTRICTIVE ANNUAL LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Tightly restricts new plans’ use of annual limits to ensure access to needed care. These tight restrictions will be defined by HHS. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, the use of any annual limits would be prohibited for all plans.)

FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER NEW PLANS—Requires new private plans to cover preventive services with no co-payments and with preventive services being exempt from deductibles. Effective 6 months after enactment.

NEW, INDEPENDENT APPEALS PROCESS FOR NEW PLANS—Ensures consumers in new plans have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal decisions. Effective 6 months after enactment.

MORE FOR YOUR PREMIUM DOLLAR—Requires plans to put more of your premiums into your care, and less into profits, CEO pay, etc. This medical loss ratio requires plans in the individual and small group market to spend 80 percent of premiums on medical services, and plans in the large group market to spend 85 percent. Insurers that don’t meet these thresholds must provide rebates to policyholders. Effective on January 1, 2011.

NO DISCRIMINATION BASED ON SALARY—Prohibits new group health plans from establishing any eligibility rules for health care coverage that have the effect of discriminating in favor of higher wage employees. Effective 6 months after enactment.

IF YOU DON’T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE:

IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL)—Provides immediate access to insurance for Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition - through a temporary high-risk pool – until the Exchanges up and running in 2014. Effective 90 days after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, health plans are banned from discriminating against all people with pre-existing conditions, so high-risk pools would phase out).

EXTENDING COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 26TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE – Requires health plans to allow young people up to their 26th birthday to remain on their parents’ insurance policy, at the parents’ choice. Effective 6 months after enactment.

GENERAL REFORMS:

COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS—Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for nearly doubling the number of patients served over the next 5 years. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.

MORE PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS—Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.

HEALTH INSURANCE CONSUMER ASSISTANCE—Provides aid to states to establish offices of health insurance consumer assistance to help consumers file complaints and appeals. Effective beginning in FY 2010.

A NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled. Effective on January 1, 2011.

And in 2014, once the exchanges have formed, more insurance reforms go into effect, including:

NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ADULTS WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS

BAN ON HIGHER PREMIUMS FOR WOMEN

PREMIUMS BASED ON AGE CAN ONLY VARY BY A MAXIMUM OF 3-TO-1 RATIO

CAP ON OUT-OF-POCKET EXPENSES for private health plans
***
http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=2214

bd

[Dub]

I work for the gubment I can assure you they will FUX UP health care! Both parties SUX! We the people should just be left alone. The constitution should be read by the A-holes in DC. The only thing that the fed gubment does well is provide a military. Mike, the FDA has never been to that waffle house outside of hopedale

[John M]

No preexisting conditions.  Great,  Ill just wait to get cancer and then get insurance. 

Wait a second, you can't complain that everybody HAS to get insurance and simultaneously complain that people WON'T get insurance until they need it.

Pick one argument or the other - you're contradicting yourself.

bd

No contradicting here, just common sense.  It will be much cheaper for individuals and companys to just pay the fine or dump everyone onto the gov. plan.  Most practioners dont accept medicare/medicaid now because of the terrible reumbursement rates.  Your gov. insurance wont be worth the paper its printed on without a pracitioner to see you.  Why in the hell would someone invest 8-15 years of their life not to make money. This will prohibit anyone from going into medicine and now they want to jack up student loans to 6% to pay for the damn thing when they borrowed the money at 2%..  Most medical/dental students are 150-300k plus it debt when they graduate.

[MikeA]

Dub, even the FDA knows better then to eat there. 

[jarrod white]

I guess we should feel sorry for all the doctors because I see them all the time trying to scratch out a living and struggling to make ends meet. I know it takes a lot of time and money to get where they are, I have a good friend at vanderbilt who is a cardiologist and his new wife is a neurosurgeon and we are all 3 the same age. I know what they had to pay for schooling and I am sure that is tough for awhile, but I also know the kind of money they make.
I hate this debate is a finger pointing thing, but the fact of the matter is that the health care system in this country needs some attention. I don't have the solution, and I promise each one here has a solution that is full of holes also.
I also hate to hear about a Dr investing any more of his life than anybody else. I think everybody that reads this has invested a whole life to try to make money and get ahead.

[bd]

No contradicting here, just common sense.  It will be much cheaper for individuals and companys to just pay the fine or dump everyone onto the gov. plan.  Most practioners dont accept medicare/medicaid now because of the terrible reumbursement rates.  Your gov. insurance wont be worth the paper its printed on without a pracitioner to see you.  Why in the hell would someone invest 8-15 years of their life not to make money. This will prohibit anyone from going into medicine and now they want to jack up student loans to 6% to pay for the damn thing when they borrowed the money at 2%..  Most medical/dental students are 150-300k plus it debt when they graduate.

I think you're suffering from some serious misinformation on what the new healthcare bill contains.  There isn't a "gov. plan" for everyone to be dumped onto!  The final bill doesn't contain any public option or government run insurance plan.  All insurance is still provided by private companies - they just are barred from dumping people for pre-existing conditions, and nationalized competition will be implemented through "healthcare exchanges" by 2014.

As far as people paying the fine instead of buying insurance, two things:  first of all, most people would rather pay a premium and get insurance than just pay a fine that's a little smaller and have nothing to show for it.  Second, nearly all of America gets their insurance through their employers anyway, and the combination of business tax credits and additional mandate provisions provide a huge incentive to the businesses to make sure employees are covered.

The reconciliation package currently working its way through the Senate removes the cuts from Medicare reimbursement rates, so doctors get some relief there.  Ironically, Republicans complained about the cuts to doctors and when that was fixed, they complained about the budget impact of NOT making the cut.  Just like they complain that people wouldn't buy insurance, and then they complain about the mandate.  At the end of the day, they object to ANYTHING teh Dems do.  Dems do something, they complain.  Dems do the opposite, and they complain just as much.  At the end of the day, screw policy - it doesn't matter WHAT the bill contains, the Republicans are objecting to it not because they want a better bill, but because they think it helps them politically to deliver a defeat - any defeat - to Obama.

bd

[TimM]

I really debated whether or not to respond anymore on this topic since these exchanges almost never change anyones' opinion, they easily become confrontational and people are easily offended. However, as I think this is a very important topic and we are, as a nation, at an important juncture I concluded that I would be choosing comfort over responsibility if I went that way....so here goes.

I think you're suffering from some serious misinformation on what the new healthcare bill contains.  There isn't a "gov. plan" for everyone to be dumped onto! 

That cuts more than one way Brian.  The net effect of this legislation is that it will encourage employers to quit providing health insurance to employees and make it more difficult for individuals to afford coverage on their own.  If you were a business owner and you were faced with the prospect of either paying several hundred dollars or more per month for every employee or an annual $2000 fine which would you choose? I know there's math involved here but it's easy enough that even english majors should be able to handle it (  ) . The objective of running a business is to profit, if you can cut a major expense item by a factor of 2, 3 or more doesn't that mean more profit for the business?  As it happens I talked with a local small business owner at length about this yesterday who said that their accountant has estimated that this will cost him a minimum of $600,000 per year to comply with.  In an economy that has already strained his business like a lot of others this is a very serious threat to the viability of his operation.  I know there's a certain segment of our population that, whether they would admit or not, would read that and think to themselves, well cry me a river he's a business owner...probably made tons of money, serves him right! Or something along those lines. Don't forget he goes out of business, a lot of hourly non-skilled workers that depend on that business for their livelihood will lose their jobs too - not to mention the loss in tax revenue which has all sorts of ripple effects.

The so called "free" preventative care requirements in the bill includes things like colonoscopies and a lot of other things that are not cheap (just wanted to make ya'll squirm a little more...lol...you've got to keep a sense of humor about this stuff or it will make you CRAZY  )  well those things won't be free for the health insurance companies, they'll have to pay for them. Which means that what will necessarily have to happen with their rates? If they are to stay in business they'll have to go up....a lot. Which will lead to cries of " those greedy pigs - we tried to control them but the rates went up again - guess we'll have to impose premium limits". And what happens then?  Well those companies go out of business. Where does the insurance coverage come from then? Only one place left to look. Or let's just say that the feds stay out of it and let the rates go where they must for companies to survive..that makes health insurance less affordable. Oh but there are subsidies.  Right, well where do those funds come from? From our tax dollars of course. Oh, and we're already broke....and we're doing things with this bill that will further strain the economy thereby reducing tax rolls further...which won't help the debt picture.  Even if the national debt wasn't a factor do we really want to  create an even larger dependent class in this country? How has LBJ's "war on poverty" from the 60's worked out? I dare say most of us would say not so well.

As far as people paying the fine instead of buying insurance, two things:  first of all, most people would rather pay a premium and get insurance than just pay a fine that's a little smaller and have nothing to show for it. 

Ok, more math here ----  "a fine that's a little smaller" ??  I currently pay $900/month for health insurance and it's nothing special.  I just paid $400 for my portion of having a CT scan last week.  The fine is $695 per year. So, let's do some multiplication.... 900x12= $10,800 OR $695.  I know which I'd prefer!

 

additional mandate provisions provide a huge incentive to the businesses to make sure employees are covered.

I firmly believe the facts show you are mistaken about this  Brian. See my comments above.

The reconciliation package currently working its way through the Senate removes the cuts from Medicare reimbursement rates, so doctors get some relief there. 

Which brings us back to the way this bill was written to game the CBO score. See my original post (not the American Pie one) This was specifically removed from the bill originally so that the pols in favor could run around knowingly making false claims about it's cost and deficit neutrality.


Finally on the bill, as I said much earlier - totally aside from the details of the bill I most strenuously object to the will of the people being subverted on this matter and having legislation IMPOSED on the electorate which is what this amounts to IMO since it's undeniable that for whatever combination of reasons the majority of the populace did not want this particular bill passed. Yes, there are problems with medical care delivery, but this was not the way to fix them.

There are some pretty fart smellers ....ummm wait..I meant smart fellers... that hang out here abouts and that's a big part of why I too hang out here even though there is little overlap between the species we pursue or how we choose to pursue them so I want to share a personal observation with you in hopes that it will resonate with some of you.

About 1.5-2 years ago I realized that I had gotten to the point that as soon as I saw the source, the authors name or title  for an article related to public policy matters I had a strong tendency to dismiss anything in the article as being valid...if I even read it all.  I realized I had become something I didn't want to be - closed minded. If it was only information I was seeking to form a sound opinion  if I didn't consider opposing opinions with an open mind how could I do so?  Then I remembered an old military strategy. Divide and conquer.  I may be mistaken on this but it seems to me that as long as the political parties are able to divide the populace into a couple of  camps and stoke the fires of rhetoric so we're busy arguing with each other and more concerned with defeating "them" than looking hard at the substance of any given issue this makes us much easier to manipulate.   I wish a pox on the house of both political parties. I think they have both shirked their responsibilities to this nation and it's people to further their own personal interests.  Our electoral system is broken.    I am not interested in supporting any particular political party. They both "inhale vigorously" imo.   I know it's hard to get beyond our usual way of looking at things - to shake off long established patterns - it's been difficult for me....however I would encourage you all to take an honest look at how you form your opinions and strive to be as objective as any human can be when it comes to important matters like these that effect not only you, but all of our loved ones now and for a long time to come. For me this isn't about right or left it's about right or wrong. Just use the common sense your Maker gave you and you'll know what's, what.   I also understand that this stuff isn't fun/pleasant to think about - but I do believe we all have a responsibility to our families and our country to do so.  Don't be lazy - there's lots of information available if you're willing to go look for it. Do so and consider info from diverse sources- become an informed citizen!

All this angst (not really an n-ga-neer kinda word huh Brian?  ) has even got the fish stressed out and not eating - I fished from dark to dark y'day without so much as 1 strike to show for it - so I'm DONE on this one!   

[MikeA]

I like to think the caliber of people here has prevented this from becoming a name calling finger pointing thread like so many other forums I've read lately. Thanks for that to everyone.

Tim here is some math that bothers me. The average annual family income in TN is around 56,000. If we use your insurance premium as an example that's $10,800 a year just for health insurance and that doesn't even cover the families portion to be paid. No big deal if that's what it costs but when I look around and see that some of the largest, most exquisite buildings in town are insurance buildings, and I see insurance CEOs getting paid millions in bonuses alone, it gets under my crawl just a little bit. If we were talking about Bass boat manufactures, or Exxon, or McDonald's then it wouldn't be a big deal (although I do seem to remember alot of folks screaming for the gov to do something about gas prices when they hit $5 a gal...) we don't "need" those things. But we're talking about health care here. It's been turned into a huge money maker with all kinds of greedy little hands in the pot. Surely you are aware that there are people who have worked their entire lives that can't afford the medicine or treatments that could save their lives, or $900 a month for a crappy insurance plan.

Something has to be done and I'm just glad to see someone taking the ball and moving with it. There is no perfect solution but at least the ball is set in motion and maybe some good will come from it. If the R's want to beat this bill I would love to hear what it is they propose we do. I've already heard all the "end of merica as we know it" BS that I can stand. Lets hear something real something fresh, something that helps the American people and not just the rich shareholders for a freaking change.