Musky Day at Fly South

[Jon]

Heard this was a great event that was packed. I had family in and couldn't make it down but glad Fly South is doing things like this and the Film Tour. Hopefully they will have another event on Musky Fishing again in the future. Support your local fly shop.

[MikeA]

Support you local forum and guides too! We've been putting on good local fly fishing discussion and promoting products for the shops since 2005. I was linking to them from Day one. Local support should ALWAYS work both ways...

[toddro]

I went for the free seminar from 10-11am but unfortunately could not stay all day.  It was cool.  Not extremely informative, but I don't think they wanted to steal the thunder from the all day seminar that folks paid 90 bucks for.  Still, I learned a few things and enjoyed meeting the guys that build the Towee boats and got to talk to Brad Bohen for a bit - all super nice guys. 

[Steve H]

I agree Mike.

I couldn't make the event as I had to support an upgrade all morning Saturday hopefully it was good.

[bd]

Yup.  Some folks are getting fairly proficient at catching them on the fly.  Brad Bohen came down:

http://dnr.wi.gov/fish/record/bradbohen.html

http://www.greatlakesflys.com/TripsandServices/GuideServices/SmallmouthPikeandMusky/MuskyontheFly/tabid/95/Default.aspx

What are you trying to say?

bd

[MikeA]

Corey I think hundreds on the fly might be a slight exaggeration. As far as I know he's never filmed him catching any on the fly which seems odd since it is a big deal. I'm not trying to make it heroic or anything but it is pretty much the pinnacle of freshwater fly fishing, similar to Permit on the fly in Saltwater. I don't doubt he's caught a few but I know for a fact it isn't easy and it isn't for everybody. Most true fly fishermen don't usually switch back to gear after they've caught hundreds of a certain species... Likely he knows what a pain in the ass it really is and prefers to just catch Musky and not play cat and mouse with them...

[bd]

I just...I dunno...seems like all of a sudden....5 people care about musky fishing in TN, and then stuff like this. I guess it's a good thing for the fishery.

Okay, I thought you might be saying something else.

I was actually talking about the same thing with some folks a couple days ago.  Even as recently as five or six years ago, I bet the majority of fishermen didn't even know we HAD muskie in Tennessee - and certainly not within easy reach of Nashville.  Then it just exploded overnight, to the point that there's a muskie's face on the cover of the TWRA Fishing Regs this year.

I don't think it's any mystery that the Internet is the source of the "tipping point" for everyone suddenly finding out about these fish.  

It's a double-edged sword for the fishery.  It's going to mean a LOT more pressure on these fish.  If it keeps going at the current rate, the Collins might be the “muskie version of the Caney Fork” in a couple decades.  The days of fishing the Collins (especially from the best-known access points) all day long and never seeing another boat are probably going to be at an end soon.

On the other hand, muskie aren't trout, and they resist fishing pressure a little better because it's so hard to make them bite.  Ha ha – people think those plateau muskie are tough now?  They probably aren’t, really.  I’ve talked to folks from up North who fish the popular muskie spots all season for a handful of fish, and they seem to regard it as somewhat of a minor miracle that people here hit the rivers and catch two, maybe three muskies in a single day with some regularity.  

But wait until the Collins has boats rip roaring back and forth on it all day, and those muskie are seeing 3 or 4 dozen lures go past them every weekend.  People will be talking about today as “the good old days” then.

Of course, more publicity for the muskie will make TWRA value those fish more, which hopefully will mean tightened limits, better management, and more stringent enforcement of size regs and limits.  Also, you can’t overlook protection of water quality for the Plateau rivers, as development creeps that way over the coming years.  With luck, better management and protection will offset the impact of greater fishing pressure.  

We’ll see.

bd

[MikeA]

BD,
Which is exactly why I never used to give river names when talking about Musky... The way I see it is they were there and they were fine before they became the rage. I learned of them over 12 years ago from a good friend who grew up in the area. He hated them and we never targeted them but would hook one on occasion while fishing for other fish. They have been there a long time. They can be there a long time from now. BUT,, There is nothing, and I mean nothing, positive that will come from blatant advertising of this fishery to southern or northern anglers under the guise of I'm helping bring awareness to the fish to protect it (while collecting $$ for a guide trip). I'm not trying to piss anyone off here so I hope nobody takes it personal because it isn't. It is the truth though. I've been an internet fishing chatter for as long as the internet fishing community has existed and if I've learned anything it is that this is a powerful and very destructive tool. I've yet to see any positive results come from telling everybody on the net about your exact fishing locations. Some may say the recent reg changes on the Caney is an example of positive results but I'd disagree. Trying to squeeze 50 boats into an area where only three boats can fish comfortably isn't my idea of fishing, I don't care how big the trout get.

As a guide myself I've seen first hand the mass frenzy created by posting on Boards a good fishing location. I've been a part of it. Caney several years ago there weren't hardly any people targeting the big Trout. BD can back me up on this. We almost NEVER saw anyone doing it. Word got out and all of sudden everybody was doing it. Then the word got out about how good they tasted. Alot of fish were removed. I not saying it ruined the river but it changed it. Catching big Trout on the fly got tough as hell for awhile.

Anyway enough rambling on, now everybody knows how I feel about it. I hope they all will still talk to me or have a beer sometime. It's a fine line between being a guide or being a river pimp. Some places are so screwed it doesn't matter anymore i.e. Caney. Some places are worth protecting even if it means you lose a trip or two over it. After all I'm an fisherman before I'm a guide.

[Bfish]

kudos Mike!  Very refreshing to hear.

[bd]

 You just nailed on the head why I prefer to fish the lake. It's not uncommon for me to see 4-10 fish on a float of the river, and the most I've ever seen in one float was 27 different fish, but still....I just prefer reservoir fishing. Trolling, breaklines, suspended fish....I dunno, just what i grew up with I guess.

Generally speaking, I much prefer fishing rivers over lakes.

With regard to muskie fishing in particular, I hate fishing for those #@$&% following, non-biting, uncooperative, lock-jawed, stubborn, futile b*stards whereever they may be.    

bd

[bd]

Having totally hijacked this thread, I will now take the doodoo-stirring to the next level. 

Kinkaid produced a number of 3 lb plus fish last year, and even a fish in the mid 4 lb range, forever debunking the myth that muskies do in fact eat crappies as a primary forage base

Hey - this reminds me of something I learned way way back in a wildlife management class in college.  Say you have a farm pond and you want to grow extra big trophy bluegill in it.  You know one thing you've got to do?  You've got to make sure you have the proper density of bass.

In the pond, the bluegills will be the "primary forage base" of the bass.  The bass thin out the bluegill, reduce competition pressure, and thus the individuals who survive to adulthood are able to grow to larger sizes.

So maybe those crappie are getting bigger because the muskies are thinning them out. 

bd

[bd]

Still, two points remain:

1.  Having large crappie coming out of a lake doesn't "debunk" the claim that muskie eat them. 

2.  If you've got a lot of big crappie coming out of a densely-populated system, that suggests that something is thinning them out.  If you used to have small crappie and then you started getting big crappie after the muskie population improved, that's awfully strong circumstantial evidence that there's some predation pressure going on.  Maybe it's seasonal; maybe fish of a certain age are involved so it's not universal, but at some point some crappie are getting eaten.

The best true "debunking" of the idea that muskie prey on panfish would come if the muskies increased and the lake was still churning out overpopulated, malnourished small crappie in stunted sizes.

bd

[MikeA]

They are probably eating all the bass that get pulled off the beds and bounced 40 miles across the lake at 90 mph for a tournament weigh in too.

[Racer X]

Support you local forum and guides too! We've been putting on good local fly fishing discussion and promoting products for the shops since 2005. I was linking to them from Day one. Local support should ALWAYS work both ways...

It's been my experience that it's an all take and no give thang with the places I've done business with.

[bd]

What is your beef with musky eating panfish? Do you know how many studies refute this?

I don't have a "beef" with muskies eating anything.  And I'll agree that they prefer soft-finned fish at least to the extent of suckers and such.  Up north the studies indicate that they seem to eat a hell of a lot of yellow perch.  I'm not convinced of your hypothesis that they will follow shad the same way stripers or blue catfish do - that seems a bit of a reach.  The studies on muskie diet in general are hampered by small sample sizes, questions about seasonal variation, and other concerns - I'm sure you're aware of that.  On the other hand, who wants to cut open a hundred muskies every season to get a statistically-sound sample?  

Regardless, on the published studies I've seen on the 'Net, there are clearly enough panfish showing up in the muskies that you can't rule them out as a meaningful part of their diet.

Now to be fair to the muskies, crappie and panfish in general have incredible reproductive potential, and muskies tend to be pretty rare numerically speaking even in their prime habitat.  It's just not likely they would ever "clean out" the panfish from a system, and like I said above, some predation pressure can even improve panfish under the right circumstances.

I agree with you that a crew of old-timers sitting on top of every spawning brushpile and keeping 100 crappie a weekend is far more responsible for screwing up crappie numbers than any muskie ever would be.  Case in point - I had a great crappie spot behind my house up until two years ago, with some sunken brushpiles around a dock.  Then one day 3 years ago an old guy - retired, evidently - discovered my spot.  I say he was evidently retired because after he found it I saw him nearly EVERY SINGLE DAY, 4 to 5 days a week, parked in his pontoon boat over that brush, from mid-March until it slacked off around May.  Sometimes he was alone, sometimes he brought friends, but he always kept fish.  I'm sure they'll eventually bounce back but it'll take some time.  

I was standing on the shore fishing this year and he came through, fished a bit, and started to pack up.  He said it used to be a good spot but he hadn't done any good there this spring.  I wonder why.

bd